Babes in Boyland

SARAH DOUGHER
A Shark Bait / Babes in Boyland interview @ the Crocodile Café, Seattle (10.26.2000).

Bib/Sb : Can you tell us about queercore. I mean so many people have been using the word either to describe a particular type of music (punk particularly) or the sexuality of the performers, what is your definition ?
S.D. : Well, I think many people limit queercore to punk because a) of the word 'core', which is usually used in expressions such hardcore and b) because of the fanzine Out Punk which was really punk focussed. That was an important way that people outside of other scenes got the information of queer people playing music and it was almost all punk.

Bib/Sb : How did it all start, this queercore thing ?
S.D. : God, I don't know. I was never really drawn to anything called the queercore because all my friends were queer and we all played music, so it wasn't like 'yeah, we're gonna start a queercore band'.

Bib/Sb : But you already had…
S.D. : Yeah, here I am… so I guess that when a group pursue to choose an identity or is formed from an identity, it feels like automatically once you name it, it starts to disintegrate. The reason is because it can't possibly contain within one name all of the diversity within it. It just seems so funny because when I think of queercore, I think of other cultural manifestations of gay culture that have flourished and I think about France and a lot of women I know, like Tobi Vail, sometimes write about this too. We are like totally obsessed with Paris of the 20s. That was a cultural phenomenon that was sexually liberated, that was supportive and interested in gay identity and its relationship with creation. As far as queercore is concerned, I see its connections to other genres of music that are identity based, like straight edge hardcore punk and all those identity oriented musicians but I see the movement that we can classify as queercore as being also related to other gay cultural movements. They existed in different places at different times. They are very different now than from what they were let's say before 1967. Besides they exist in different manifestations all over the US.

Bib/Sb : Don't you think that this queer identity is turning into a mere market now, though ?
S.D. : Well, I think people identify as queers for various reasons, and there are as many reasons as there are people who do it. It's just like mainstream culture, you know. Queerculture has a relationship to mainstream culture because we live under capitalism and as a result, queer identity is understood by people who create market as a market. Gay men, that's one market, gay women, that's another market. There are stratifications if you are thinking in the capitalist model. But I think that for many people owning that identity is a life line to their true selves, to how they can exist in the world and be liberated, truly liberated. In that sense, I can't hold the cynical view about it, even though I want to barf when I see an Ikea ad with two gay men choosing furniture… (laughs) I don't identify with that, that's not really my world, you know, but I am also really glad that my mom gets to see that, that gay people do normal things like choose furniture, that they have partners, jobs, kids, lives, that they chose. It's a double-edged sword because it helps gay people who want to assimilate into capitalist patriarchal culture, to participate in this system, but I think for freaks and especially transgender people, it's still a really intense struggle. I think that actually in the next ten years, that's going to be the main focus of gay and sexuality-based identity struggle. The same issues exist for trans-people as did for gays andlesbians up to Stonewall and beyond.

Bib/Sb : So why do you see yourself any reason for fitting into that identification ?
S.D. : Well, it's hard to say because I feel like although my music isn't overtly political, like a lot of it is kind of personal, using a personal voice, I still see it, and I see my making music as really politically motivated act. That's why I switched labels from K to Mr Lady, because I wanted to be involved with people who were a) making overtly more political music, b) people who were thinking about it as part of their relationship to corporate culture in capitalist society, that they are feminists.

Bib/Sb : I want to know what your real passion is, Like you say that you teach and you play, you write… I mean you seem like a very involved person in the community. What could you not live without ?
S.D. : I think that we're asked to define these things, make these choices that limit you, limit you, limit you. I have always had the impression that the object of education is to actually widen your options as opposed to limit them. When I was in Grad School, I realized that actually the opposite was true, that what you do is be trained to limit yourself, so that you area professional in just one field and that did not really fit who I am, what I do it is being a teacher. I see that as crossing through a lot of different activities. Being a writer is also like being a teacher, being a teacher is like being an actor, a singer, you know. I think that the space shared between teacher and performer is a large space and I like that too.

Bib/Sb : When did you start playing music ? It feels like you've done that forever.
S.D. : I've played music since I was like 5. I played the piano and the violin. Then I started play the guitar when I was 11, my brother and I bought an electric guitar together and we just learnt Beatles songs on the guitar at first. But mostly I started with other people when I was in Grad School, in like 92, so it hasn't been really that long. 8 years, well I guess it's a long time…. I guess that's an interesting idea about passions. I was in New York last week and I went to this exhibit in the public library. It was an exhibit on Utopia and they had some really amazing manuscripts and maps and stuff, but one thing they had was a quote by Karl Marx on the wall. It said basically that ideally, in a utopia, a man could wake up in the morning and spend time with his family and be a father, then he would practice his craft as a craftsman, then he wouldplay music as a musician and he would labour and be a labourer. In the ideal world, a person would practice over a very broad range of activities. He or she would be adept in all of them because they would be given the opportunity to learn them, to pursue them in the way that they felt best and it wouldn't be a process of elimination, like 'what am I best at?' It would be a process of constant learning and constant development within all echelons of culture, not just 'high' culture, not just blue collar worker, labourer, that you would experience the range of these things, and I think that's really important. Therefore you can just say 'I am a citizen'.

Bib/S.D. : Well, I guess we can say you are.
S.D. : I hope, I hope, I am trying really hard but it's not easy because one reason why people choose one thing is because they have to earn a living and pay their rent, and they have a student loan, like me.

Bib/Sb : Do you have any other collaborative projects going on, musically I mean ?
S.D. : Not right now, I am working with my friend John and my solo songs. It's about all I can handle right now. And we are planning on writing songs this winter, so there should be more music coming soon. My next collaboration I think is going to be recording with this woman in San Francisco called Amy Linton, who is in a band called the Aislers Set, and she is a very interesting engineer and producer. Therefore I see that as a collaboration, that's coming up. She is a very good friend and that is usually I pick the people I work with, they are my friends, we do all this in a very natural way.

Bib/Sb : Are you planning on touring Europe ?
S.D. : I wish I could go to Europe, but it's so expensive. Actually I toured England with Marine Research. I think that if I toured Europe I would like to tour with somebody else but it is not always easy to find people who play kind of the same music as I do.

Bib/S.D. : Well, we wish you the best and thanks so much for your time.